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	<title>Comments on: Have You Met Patricia Martin&#8217; RenGen (Renaissance Generation) Cultural Consumers?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/</link>
	<description>My year-long book-as-a-blog experiment in why we choose to consume, or not</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Everyone is a Creators Now! Really? &#124; Gauravonomics Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-501</link>
		<dc:creator>Everyone is a Creators Now! Really? &#124; Gauravonomics Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Jun 2008 09:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-501</guid>
		<description>[...] It is based on the claim that &#8220;everybody is a Creator now&#8221; that commentators like Patricia Martin are predicting that &#8220;we are about to see a cultural movement that is similar in scope and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] It is based on the claim that &#8220;everybody is a Creator now&#8221; that commentators like Patricia Martin are predicting that &#8220;we are about to see a cultural movement that is similar in scope and [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-498</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 07:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-498</guid>
		<description>@Sandeep: Yes, I agree that the need for simplicity is the most powerful because it operates at the level of a pressing "need", while personalization and authenticity operate at the level of "wants".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sandeep: Yes, I agree that the need for simplicity is the most powerful because it operates at the level of a pressing &#8220;need&#8221;, while personalization and authenticity operate at the level of &#8220;wants&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: We Are All Post-Nader Shoppers &#124; The Marketer Who Went Off Consumption</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-472</link>
		<dc:creator>We Are All Post-Nader Shoppers &#124; The Marketer Who Went Off Consumption</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Jun 2008 11:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-472</guid>
		<description>[...] an irreproachable reputation will be a part of it, but brands will be most effective when they create authentic and personalized experiences for their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] an irreproachable reputation will be a part of it, but brands will be most effective when they create authentic and personalized experiences for their [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Sandeep Ramesh</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-442</link>
		<dc:creator>Sandeep Ramesh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 05:48:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-442</guid>
		<description>Hi...a really interesting debate here. Love it when the author joins in!
My $0.02 - I feel that the core lies in the third trend - need for simplicity. Because of the bombardment of brands, people become information hungry. This turns into a vicious cycle of mistrust. Hence, any option which makes decision making very simple - a no-brainer - would be welcomed.
The basic need of simplicity gives rise to the other two trends, and together they form a convoluted circle!
And yes, I don't really feel we are on the verge of a cultural revolution in terms of consumption. But, I haven't read the book yet. So, the opinion might change after that!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi&#8230;a really interesting debate here. Love it when the author joins in!<br />
My $0.02 - I feel that the core lies in the third trend - need for simplicity. Because of the bombardment of brands, people become information hungry. This turns into a vicious cycle of mistrust. Hence, any option which makes decision making very simple - a no-brainer - would be welcomed.<br />
The basic need of simplicity gives rise to the other two trends, and together they form a convoluted circle!<br />
And yes, I don&#8217;t really feel we are on the verge of a cultural revolution in terms of consumption. But, I haven&#8217;t read the book yet. So, the opinion might change after that!</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-435</guid>
		<description>@Patricia: I too love a lively debate. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;I have found that people who like feeling a part of the indie sub-culture resist the notion that there are many more people like themselves out there. It’s antithetical to being “indie.” Is it possible that those who identify most with RenGen values also want to remain slightly apart from the masses as a way of enhancing their uniqueness?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You got me there, didn't you?

I also agree that the explosion of user-generated content has dramatically democratized the creation and distribution of art. Still, to claim that we are on the verge of the rebirth of civilization because 90mn people have a MySpace page seems excessive to me. 

I do realize, of course, that I'm playing the devil's advocate here, at least in part. Still, I would love to hear your views on the first few paragraphs of  Roger Sandall’s &lt;a href="http://www.rogersandall.com/Spiked_10,000-Years-of-Nostalgia.php" rel="nofollow"&gt;10,000 Years of Nostalgia&lt;/a&gt;, the part before he starts talking about Xenophilia and Freud.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Patricia: I too love a lively debate. </p>
<blockquote><p>I have found that people who like feeling a part of the indie sub-culture resist the notion that there are many more people like themselves out there. It’s antithetical to being “indie.” Is it possible that those who identify most with RenGen values also want to remain slightly apart from the masses as a way of enhancing their uniqueness?</p></blockquote>
<p>You got me there, didn&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>I also agree that the explosion of user-generated content has dramatically democratized the creation and distribution of art. Still, to claim that we are on the verge of the rebirth of civilization because 90mn people have a MySpace page seems excessive to me. </p>
<p>I do realize, of course, that I&#8217;m playing the devil&#8217;s advocate here, at least in part. Still, I would love to hear your views on the first few paragraphs of  Roger Sandall’s <a href="http://www.rogersandall.com/Spiked_10,000-Years-of-Nostalgia.php" rel="nofollow">10,000 Years of Nostalgia</a>, the part before he starts talking about Xenophilia and Freud.</p>
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		<title>By: Patricia Martin</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-434</link>
		<dc:creator>Patricia Martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 12:19:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-434</guid>
		<description>Gaurav-
Ooooh. Love a lively debate. I have found that people who like feeling a part of the indie sub-culture resist the notion that there are many more people like themselves out there. It's antithetical to being "indie." Because the web is somewhat invisible in the way it masses people, it's easier to believe cultural consumers are still a "subculture." I agree this kind of consumer has been around for a long time. I'm challenging just a bit the idea that they will always remain so during the coming rebirth of the civilization. The 90M members of MySpace use it as a vast digital canvas to express themselves. This goes beyond glorified "personals" and elevates it into the realm of festivals and craftsman parades of the Italian Renaissance where lots of average people jumped into the act, sewing tapestries onto their clothes, parading in the town square with oil paintings of saints. If I am guilty, as you suggest, of inflating numbers to make this seem like a mass movement, (and I have numbers that prove otherwise), then is it possible that those who identify most with RenGen values also want to remain slightly apart from the masses as a way of enhancing their uniqueness? Just askin'?
Patricia Martin</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaurav-<br />
Ooooh. Love a lively debate. I have found that people who like feeling a part of the indie sub-culture resist the notion that there are many more people like themselves out there. It&#8217;s antithetical to being &#8220;indie.&#8221; Because the web is somewhat invisible in the way it masses people, it&#8217;s easier to believe cultural consumers are still a &#8220;subculture.&#8221; I agree this kind of consumer has been around for a long time. I&#8217;m challenging just a bit the idea that they will always remain so during the coming rebirth of the civilization. The 90M members of MySpace use it as a vast digital canvas to express themselves. This goes beyond glorified &#8220;personals&#8221; and elevates it into the realm of festivals and craftsman parades of the Italian Renaissance where lots of average people jumped into the act, sewing tapestries onto their clothes, parading in the town square with oil paintings of saints. If I am guilty, as you suggest, of inflating numbers to make this seem like a mass movement, (and I have numbers that prove otherwise), then is it possible that those who identify most with RenGen values also want to remain slightly apart from the masses as a way of enhancing their uniqueness? Just askin&#8217;?<br />
Patricia Martin</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 04:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-428</guid>
		<description>@Gregory: Yes, authenticity is a core personal aspiration for many of us now, and since we often realize our aspirations through the brands we buy, we are now demanding that brands be authentic too.

Well, brands, like all economic offerings, are &lt;a href="http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/is-the-noble-savage-the-ideal-for-the-post-consumerist-society/" rel="nofollow"&gt;inherently inauthentic&lt;/a&gt;, so we are really talking about brands becoming 'more authentic', or brand trying to 'cue authenticity'.

But, what you are talking about is perhaps brands becoming 'selfless'. Yes, that's a big thing too, and many brands are also trying to 'cue selflessness' in their messages. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Gregory: Yes, authenticity is a core personal aspiration for many of us now, and since we often realize our aspirations through the brands we buy, we are now demanding that brands be authentic too.</p>
<p>Well, brands, like all economic offerings, are <a href="http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/is-the-noble-savage-the-ideal-for-the-post-consumerist-society/" rel="nofollow">inherently inauthentic</a>, so we are really talking about brands becoming &#8216;more authentic&#8217;, or brand trying to &#8216;cue authenticity&#8217;.</p>
<p>But, what you are talking about is perhaps brands becoming &#8217;selfless&#8217;. Yes, that&#8217;s a big thing too, and many brands are also trying to &#8216;cue selflessness&#8217; in their messages. <img src='http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 04:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-427</guid>
		<description>@Susan: Dishy Mix is now officially my favorite podcast. I totally loved your interview with Joseph Pine and it has set me on a wild goose chase on the idea of &lt;a href="http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/is-the-noble-savage-the-ideal-for-the-post-consumerist-society/" rel="nofollow"&gt;the noble savage&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, you should interview Tim Ferris. He'll be perfect for your podcast. 

BTW, if you have any more signed copies of books lying around, do think of me. I can't buy any books in my year of being off consumption, so I'm basically relying on the generosity of friends and strangers. In any case, as you can see, I'm making it a habit to write about your podcasts. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Susan: Dishy Mix is now officially my favorite podcast. I totally loved your interview with Joseph Pine and it has set me on a wild goose chase on the idea of <a href="http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/is-the-noble-savage-the-ideal-for-the-post-consumerist-society/" rel="nofollow">the noble savage</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, you should interview Tim Ferris. He&#8217;ll be perfect for your podcast. </p>
<p>BTW, if you have any more signed copies of books lying around, do think of me. I can&#8217;t buy any books in my year of being off consumption, so I&#8217;m basically relying on the generosity of friends and strangers. In any case, as you can see, I&#8217;m making it a habit to write about your podcasts. <img src='http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav Mishra</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav Mishra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 04:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-426</guid>
		<description>@Patricia: I can't tell you how delighted I am that you dropped in here. I haven't read the full book yet (I can't buy any books through my year of being off consumption), but I have read your blog and the free chapters, and I agree with most of what you say. 

The assertion that we are on the verge of a second renaissance is  somewhat stretched though. I agree that a growing subculture is indeed in sync with the values you and I are talking about (authenticity, simplicity, personalization, community, back to culture, back to nature etc.), but I also believe that this subculture has always existed, in some form or the other, and never really moved into the mainstream. 

As writers, and trend-watchers, we often project the values of this subculture onto the mainstream, and by doing so we sometimes play a part in making them 'more' mainstream. 

On the whole, however, these values will never really become mainstream. Most people will never really embrace art, or go back to nature, or go off consumption. 

Even though I don't really want to, I find myself agreeing with &lt;a href="http://www.rogersandall.com/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Roger Sandall&lt;/a&gt;'s views in &lt;a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813338638/gauravonomics-20" rel="nofollow"&gt;The Culture Cult&lt;/a&gt;, and especially, his essay on &lt;a href="10,000 Years of Nostalgia" rel="nofollow"&gt;10,000 Years of Nostalgia&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Patricia: I can&#8217;t tell you how delighted I am that you dropped in here. I haven&#8217;t read the full book yet (I can&#8217;t buy any books through my year of being off consumption), but I have read your blog and the free chapters, and I agree with most of what you say. </p>
<p>The assertion that we are on the verge of a second renaissance is  somewhat stretched though. I agree that a growing subculture is indeed in sync with the values you and I are talking about (authenticity, simplicity, personalization, community, back to culture, back to nature etc.), but I also believe that this subculture has always existed, in some form or the other, and never really moved into the mainstream. </p>
<p>As writers, and trend-watchers, we often project the values of this subculture onto the mainstream, and by doing so we sometimes play a part in making them &#8216;more&#8217; mainstream. </p>
<p>On the whole, however, these values will never really become mainstream. Most people will never really embrace art, or go back to nature, or go off consumption. </p>
<p>Even though I don&#8217;t really want to, I find myself agreeing with <a href="http://www.rogersandall.com/" rel="nofollow">Roger Sandall</a>&#8217;s views in <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0813338638/gauravonomics-20" rel="nofollow">The Culture Cult</a>, and especially, his essay on <a href="10,000 Years of Nostalgia" rel="nofollow">10,000 Years of Nostalgia</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Is the Noble Savage the Ideal for the Post Consumerist Society? &#124; The Marketer Who Went Off Consumption</title>
		<link>http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/have-you-met-patricia-martin-rengen-renaissance-generation-cultural-consumers/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>Is the Noble Savage the Ideal for the Post Consumerist Society? &#124; The Marketer Who Went Off Consumption</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 18:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gauravonomics.com/offconsumption/?p=51#comment-422</guid>
		<description>[...] my year-long blog-as-a-book experiment on why we choose to consume, or not.In my earlier post about Patricia Martin&#8217;s book &#8216;RenGen&#8217;, I have written about how authenticity is one of the three big trends that are changing the very [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] my year-long blog-as-a-book experiment on why we choose to consume, or not.In my earlier post about Patricia Martin&#8217;s book &#8216;RenGen&#8217;, I have written about how authenticity is one of the three big trends that are changing the very [&#8230;]</p>
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